|
An Interview with Dr. Austin D’Souza By Mr.James Fernandes
It gives
me great pleasure to have been privileged to take an interview
with a unique personality, Dr. Austin D’souza, alias a Community
Leader, quite popular in the Chicago region, especially amongst
Asian and Indian Americans, and Lions Club members.
Dr. Austin
D'Souza
This brief
interview was prompted by a course requirement named,
“Leadership in a Changing World.” I was required to interview a
leader in an attempt to find out what he or she believes to be
the most important aspects of leadership. Hence, I chose
Austin, who is a leader, a community leader. My justifications
for selecting Austin are as follows:
He is
being very active in Lions clubs, and especially as the Vice
Governor of Lions Club International, (2003), leading about
ninety Lions clubs in the Chicago and Illinois (USA) region.
Besides,
he is The President of a club (Mangalorean Konkany Christian
Association), of Indian origin in the Chicago area promoting
religious, cultural and traditional activities, trying to
re-kindle, keep or instill some Mangalorean Christian cultural
traditions and Konkany language (an Indian language) alive in
Chicago.
He is also
involved in several Asian American religious or cultural
organizations, such as Federations of Indians in USA, or India
Catholic Association of America, etc.
He was
recently inducted to the ‘Hall of Fame’ by the Asian American
Organization, for his selfless contributions to the community.
It is a pleasure to see him pose with Jessie White, Secretary of
State, Illinois, at this occasion.
Besides,
he is a writer, in different languages, contributing articles to
several newspapers, especially recognizing contributions of
other Indians in his articles. He is also an actor with many a
shows to his credit.
In
addition to as a community leader, he works as a manager to earn
his livelihood, leading/managing/supervising/motivating over 50
people, which seems as though his part time job, for, he spends
about 10-15 hours a day serving all those organizations, as
though community service is his primary function. He is also
listed in the “Who Is Who in the World” for several recent
years.
Hence,
with all these feathers in his heavy cap, I suppose, I am
justified to choose Austin, as a candidate to be interviewed, in
order to know his leadership skills. My questions, along with
some materials covered in the course, and his answers in
verbatim, are presented below:
James:
How do you view or differentiate Leader versus Manager1
(Page 365)? The following quotations may be of help to
you in answering this important question:
E.M Kelly writes, "Boss says 'Go', whereas, Leader says 'Let's
go'."
Peter Drucker 2 (page 105), quotes, "Management is
doing things right, whereas, Leadership is doing right things."
Steven Covey writes in his “Seven Habits of Highly Effective
People"2 book, "Leadership is 'Top Line', whereas,
Management is 'Bottom Line."
Paul Hersey et al3 (Page 9) report what Warren Bennis,
a highly regarded leadership scholar, differentiated the
extremes of the management, and leadership in a number of
provocative ways:
“Leaders conquer the context, the volatile, turbulent, ambiguous
surroundings, that sometimes seem to conspire against us and
surely will suffocate us if we let them- while managers
surrender to it.
The manager administrates - the leader innovates.
The manager is a copy - the leader is an original.
The manager maintains - the leader develops.
The manager focuses on systems and structure; the leader focuses
on people.
The manager relies on control; the leader inspires trust.
The manager has a short-range view; the leader has a long-range
perspective.
The manager asks how and when; the leader asks what and why.
The manager has an eye on the bottom line; the leader has an eye
on the horizon.
The manager imitates; the leader originates.
The manager accepts the status quo; the leader challenges it.
Managers do things right; the leaders the do right things.”
Hence
Austin, are you a leader or a manager, or a combination of both?
Austin’s
Response: These words, leader and manager say everything. A
leader is to lead and the manager is to manage. For me a leader
and a manager should have equal qualities to get the things
done. A leader always leads his team, group, association, etc.,
so that people will follow and complete their goals or reach
their targets. A good leader should know how to lead others and
simultaneously how to manage people around him or her. A good
manager should know how to manage people efficiently and
simultaneously he should have the leadership qualities to manage
them.
To answer your question, I am both. I use both my leadership
and management qualities in my associations and at work. Even
though Steven Covey says that leadership is top line and
management is bottom line; unless you start from the bottom, you
cannot reach the top. Of course, there is a difference between
these two categories when both of them reach the top. As Covey
says, it is true that executive officers of a company must say
that the management is bottom line. However, a supervisor or a
middle manager should be more than that. He not only should
know how to manage people, also he should know how to lead his
fellow employees at a work environment. This method applies to
leadership too. According to the ranks of a leader, his ways of
dealing differ. A top leader sometimes demands and delegates
others to do it the way he wants.
Both - leader and a manager should be a motivator, who believes
in walk the talk for his success. Both need to understand the
demands, management techniques, effective delegation, working
with the team as a team leader, managing conflicts, recognizing
others’ talents and getting appropriate and competent resources.
James:
There are three different Leadership or Management Styles1
(Page 120):Authoritarian (autocratic), Participative
(democratic), and Delegative (free rein.) Please, which of
these styles is yours, and how it has helped you to reach as a
recognized leader?
Austin’s Response: For me, so far in my life, participative
leadership and management style worked successfully. Why I am
saying this is, when I take part in the things I authorize and
delegate to others, first I want to know what the environment
is, how it’s going to work and what will be the reality. That
is the main reason I like participative style. In this group,
you become one of them and they feel that you are one of them
and they oblige and they are happy to follow you as a leader or
do the right things the way you expect them to do.
As a leader, if you want proper recognition, you have to be one
of them. Dirty your hands with them to do the work and clap
your hands with them to enjoy your success. When they see you
perform yourself in person, they believe in you because you walk
the talk in front of their eyes. When you use authoritarian
style, you create an environment with your group to have your
leadership or management to create a fear. I call it a
leadership or managing with fear. Your followers and employees
obey you because of fear, which is not at all healthy for the
development of an association or a department. I believe in
recognizing people as human beings and when I want to reach my
goals or targets, I use participative method. Authoritarian
style works sometimes very temporarily. It creates negative
environment and people lose their respect for you within no
time. In certain departments this style may work, for example
the Police, Army, or Navy, etc.
By using participative method, one can also delegate
responsibilities and duties to subordinates or followers. It
brings a softer touch to the group to get the things done
democratically and creates a friendly and positive environment.
James: Actually that was my next question that’s ‘managing
with fear’, or in other words, there is a difference in ways
leaders approach their employees: Positive or Negative.
Positive leaders use rewards, such as raises, education,
independence, etc., to motivate employees.
Negative leaders place emphasis on penalties, fear, or
punishment.
In other words, Theory X and Theory Y: 4 (Page 1)
“Douglas McGregor developed a philosophical view of humankind
with his Theory X and Theory Y in 1960. These are two opposing
perceptions about how people view human behavior at work and
organizational life.
Theory X - With Theory X assumptions, management’s role is to
coerce and control employees. People have an inherent dislike
for work and will avoid it whenever possible. People must be
coerced, controlled, directed, or threatened with punishment in
order to get them to achieve the organizational objectives.
Which of these styles do you follow and please elaborate on your
convictions.
Austin’s
Response: Oh, yes, I touched upon this subject already, I
suppose. I always go for positive approach with my employees
and with my group. As you said, when people do things for you,
you should have the courtesy to pat their back, recognize with
praise and or rewards and motivate them to get more things done
without hurting both parties.
Negative approach works only in already mentioned departments,
for example, Police, Military, and/or Jails/Prisons. Other than
these areas, leaders and managers should take positive
approach. Currently, even in above areas we see positive and
compassionate approaches introduced by authorities. People want
to act like human beings and want to be treated with respect to
others. Otherwise, we will be just like another Hitler or
Saddam.
Leaders and managers should not bring fear in their
subordinates. They should learn how to work with positive
attitude, positive approach and friendly atmosphere. An
employee or a happy follower is an asset to your department or
association. We should get rid of our 'head weight' and come
down with them to be one of them.
James. Two other styles the leaders use are Consideration
(employee orientation, human needs, empathy) and Structure (task
orientation, keeping the people busy to get results.) Can you
disclose which of these styles you follow and why?
Austin’s Response: I follow the first style of leadership and
management: Orientation and human needs. As I am involved in
humanitarian organizations to help the needy and less fortunate,
I see people around myself, as just like myself - they are human
beings. We should give first preference to orientation because
this is the key ingredient for our day-to-day work.
Simultaneously we should fulfill human needs of our employees
and members. We should make them grow with us to meet our needs
or goals. When people get good education, knowledge and wisdom
from orientation and training, they do the right thing the right
way. You can use both methods here; however, I prefer the first
one without jeopardizing the structure.
Management is a leadership effort to integrate and effectively
use a variety of resources to accomplish an objective, goal or
target. It applies to all organizations, whether they are
business, hospitals and schools, political or humanitarian
entities. Managers and leaders will do well to remember there
is no one best way to plan, organize, motivate or control. Each
manager and or a leader must continually increase his/her
knowledge of management and leadership concepts and draw upon
them until a winning combination is found that fits him/her, the
people he manages or leads, and the type of work involved.
James: One of the texts selected for this course is "The
SERVANT as LEADER." Robert K. Greenleaf. The assignment clearly
specifies that the students should use topics covered in this
book. Hence: do you consider yourself as a 'Servant as
Leader', or, in other words do you believe in 'Serving' and
'Leading', or in 'Practicing what you Preach'? Other areas
covered are, Initiative, Listening and understanding, Acceptance
and Empathy, Foresight the central Ethic of Leadership),
Awareness and perception, Conceptualizing, healing and serving,
Community for a better caring society: Can you comment on this,
you as a servant and leader.
Austin’s Response: I think I already answered this question in
my earlier responses without knowing that you would question the
same in different words! Yes, I am a servant as leader. I
totally believe in serving and leading. Walk the talk,
practicing what you preach. A good leader or a manager should
be a good listener who initiates projects with participation and
involvement, understands the difficulties and failures to make
it work better next time with a foresight of winning the game
with proud glory. He should accept equality with tolerance by
knowing what is expected of his group to obtain the desired
results by assigning work or duties in a planned and thoughtful
way.
A true leader or a manager should know how to heal the wounds
and bring smiles in surrounding faces to make a better community
with pride. If you are not a servant, you cannot be a
successful leader in your community. Money may play a major
role to make someone a leader or influence may take place to
make someone a manager. However, if that individual doesn't
have people skills to deal with fellow human beings, whatever he
does will be just on the papers. We should build communities
around us for a better caring and sharing society. We should
try to be in someone's shoes to see the needs of others. If
served and lead, people will look at you as a good leader or
manager and you will be respected for your deeds automatically.
People are just like us and we should treat them accordingly
with tolerance and respect. When we respect others, same
respect comes back to us. It is easy to be a hypocrite; we have
thousands of them around us. Whole world is corrupted because
of these leaders. As Nike says, "Just do it", these individuals
are telling us "Just shut-up and do it". It is a hard task to
create a positive environment these days. People are busy; they
do not have time to spare because we have become a selfish
society - my family and me. We do not see beyond this. We have
computers, Internet, and games to watch. We should learn to
care others as we care ourselves to make a better tomorrow not
only for us, but also for the entire community.
James: The six leaders of the 20th Century are Lenin, Stalin,
Hitler, Mao, FDR and Churchill. These were powerful leaders,
(not necessarily every one agreed with them.) and, some people
followed them. Do you draw any strength from any one of those
or from some of them? On the other hand, who is your hero,
(could be anyone else, like Gandhi, MLK, Mother Theresa,
Kennedy,
Lincoln, etc.) and what teachings have inspired you or helped to
motivate you to become a leader.
Austin’s Response: I do not like Lenin, Stalin, Hitler or Mao
for some personal reason or may be due to reasons dumped on me
by the Church and parents. FDR and Churchill - I say somewhat.
When I was in India, I did not read much about these leaders.
Of course, I had heard about their good leadership skills and
management techniques. Regarding followers, every good and
stupid/ignorant leader on this universe had followers. That
does not mean they were good leaders for the society or this
beautiful world of ours. I appreciate what Gandhi, Martin
Luther King and Mother Teresa did to our world population by
their leadership contribution. When I was in India, Kennedy was
a good role model to me; however once I came to this country and
learned about his secrets, I lost all respect for him just like
Bill Clinton. I know that it is very hard to be a saint and a
leader. I want my role model with all positive characters.
Actually, I am a self -made leader I should say. I set some
goals and targets in my mind and I followed through in my life.
I knew what is right and what is wrong and cleaned my leadership
path accordingly. When you do the right things with a smile and
respect to others, you win people’s support; you do not have to
ask them to follow you; they just come after you and join their
hands. I like people around me. I respect their talents and
knowledge and recognize their ability to do things with proper
guidance, motivation, commitment, and desire.
Take for example our own Mangalorean Konkan Christian
Association. It was a thought recognized by an entire group as
their own concept. Even though I lead this thought, all the
members took it seriously as their own, and now we are
progressing in our mission. That is my description of true
leadership and success. A good leader does not dump/impose his
ideas on others.
James: One of the definitions of leadership states ‘Ability
to inspire confidence and support among people who are needed to
achieve organizational goals.' How do you make people to follow
you and your causes? Sometimes, one person at time. Please
share your secret of making people follow you.
Austin’s Response: A good leader thinks about the needs of
others and inspires them to get involved to achieve those
needs. He does mental assessment and brings the whole project
in front of the membership/audience. Once the members hear from
him how to fulfill their needs, they buy into that idea and they
take active part as their own project. I touched upon an
example already, earlier. A leader should do his homework
before presenting his idea to the group. Inspiration is very
important which takes a major role in this project or
organization. When you present these ideas positively, people
will follow you without your asking them to do so either one
person at a time or a whole group at one time.
I have equal respect for all members of my association or work
group. I treat them as team players. To win the game, all
players take part equally and look for the glory or success.
Just because you are a leader, do not stay above them; be one of
them, do not separate yourself from the group. Dress just like
them so that people will come closer to you without seeing any
barriers in between. Mingle with them free without any
reservation. Share feelings, opinion, ideas, and do some
brainstorming. Be cheerful always and keep a smiling face no
matter how stressful you and your duties are. Give credit for
others ideas and workmanship. Never say 'no' without giving a
legitimate reason. Do not bring any negative feelings or
dealings to the table when you meet with them. Be proud and be
positive what you are involved in for the betterment of your
community.
Always convince people; do not confuse or corrupt them for your
own glory or for your advantage. When you do good things to
your community or group, personal glory will come as a package;
you do not have to ask or demand for it. Keep away
self-interests and personal goals. Do it for the glory of your
community, association or group. As John Lancaster Spalding
said: "Let a man have but an aim, a purpose, and opportunities
to attain his end shall start forth like buds at the kiss of
spring."
James: And lastly, what is it
that motivates you to do the works that you do? [In a lighter
vein, once, I asked a young religious priest, "Fr. Tim, please
tell me what's it that drives you to do the works of mercy, "Is
it, the love of God or is it the fear of hell?" His answer was,
"the Ferrari."] Austin, please tell us your motivating factors,
definitely you are not motivated by gifts of any sort, pardon
me, but tell us, where this enthusiasm comes from?
Austin’s Response: 'Personal satisfaction' motivates me to do
the works that I do. When I see people show their happiness
through their involvement, I feel satisfied. I do not need
personal glory, money, gifts or awards for my work. When I see
a blind child coming to a doctor for an operation and leaves the
hospital with his/her parents looking at them for the first time
in his/her life with tears; I feel that is the gift from God to
him/her to see this beautiful world and a gift to me for helping
him/her to make it happen. That is the joy and happiness makes
me to do more for the needy and less fortunate, especially
through my Lion’s Clubs.
If I am here in the
United States, it is because of my help to the needy back in
Mangalore. I had a good job and no money in my bank account. I
used to give away my money to the needy for their schoolbooks,
furniture, fix their roof or buy some clothes, etc. My father
used to tell me that I am good for the society and not for my
own family. However now it is both ways after I came to this
country. My family is in a good shape so is my contribution to
the needy and less fortunate.
When I see a smile on faces of needy people and when they get
what they wanted, I feel very satisfied and it boosts my energy
to do more for my community. Modesty and simplicity should
cover a true leader. I feel happy and proud when I help others
and make others happy by uniting them together as one big
family. I do not show my hardship to others because it is not
their problem. I control myself from all other disturbances
when I get involved with people. I always ask people to let me
know if I am gone wrong somewhere sometimes. As a human being,
I am not free from mistakes. I have a good heart to listen to
people, apologize for my mistakes and learn from them for the
future.
Work with others as a team by sharing ideas, knowledge and
glory. Be simple, live simple and die simple as much as I can.
I believe in aiming at the sun and I may not reach it; but my
arrow will fly far higher than if aimed at an object on a level
of myself. It is true James! One day I will repeat the words
of Timothy 4:7-8 "I have fought the good fight, I have finished
the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me
the crown of righteousness…."
James: Well, now that I see you all enthusiastic, even though,
I called my previous question as last one, I guess, let me ask
you a final question. Austin, feel free to add a few reflective
sentences on your 'vision' or 'realistic goals' and also on 'how
do you derive strength/drive' to do so much relentlessly, and
consistently, sacrificing quite a bit of your personal life's
needs. You have covered some of them already, and your skills
and approaches quite vividly, however, any second thoughts or
additions to your responses?
Austin’s Response: James, to answer your question, I have
become just like a cancer patient and I do not think there is
any treatment for this disease! Ever since I was in college
back in Mangalore, I saw poor people around me who used to
struggle to make two ends meet. Even though our family was a
middle class family, we too had our own disadvantages to deal
with everyday life. I still remember when I was a young boy,
carrying a sack under my arm pit and running to collect saw dust
from a saw mill to burn a home made stove which we used to use
to cook, warm water, etc. Carrying heavy sack full of saw dust
and walking for about 3-4 miles every day during summer holidays
made me think about real life on this universe.
I started working with friends to uplift less fortunate people
by donations, lending a helping hand to complete their roof,
walls, painting, etc., etc. That's when I had this cancer
disease of helping the needy and less fortunate, which kept on
growing and growing and growing and now it is too late to take
it out of my human body. I gave less prominence to myself, to
my health, and wealth because of this, and continued community
service throughout my life. My vision or my mission is: "Unity
in Diversity - Keep the flame burning bright." We need to unite
with team spirit and ready to sacrifice for our brethren around
us. A smile on any face should give us enough energy and
strength to go forward with our mission to fulfill community
needs. As human beings living on this earth, we have an
obligation to do this. Otherwise what is the difference between
human beings and animals?
When you do something to others and do not think about yourself,
you get more strength to go forward. Many of us do not think
this way. We always complain about having not enough time to do
things. God has given us 24 hours a day and we should make use
of every second effectively.
Many a times we should make sacrifices - especially personal
sacrifices. These activities are taking away precious time from
your spouse, children and close family. I missed precious time
with my kids - to play with them, go to their games, concerts,
etc., etc. Yes, of course I feel bad for doing this; however,
when I see that I spend that time to uplift my community, I feel
great that I did that for others who are in need. When you talk
about sacrifice, not only time, you spend lot of your personal
money too. I could have kept all this money in my account and
seen its growth; but for me money is not everything. If I am
healthy and strong, I could earn money that is enough to
survive.
Regarding kids, they will be given enough education to prosper
in their life. Too much money will make them work less, think
less and embrace luxury more. I came to this country without a
penny in my hand. Found a job, worked hard and stood on my
own. My kids are born here and they should be able do better
than me.
I am hearing all the time for not being at home in the evenings
or weekends. I have tremendous patience to listen and not to
argue or jump into the lake. This patience kept me alive so
far. I never lose my temper no matter how bad someone treats
me. I take it as a part of my daily life and my life goes
on......... Thank you James for giving me the opportunity to
pour out a few of my inner/reflective thoughts, which are a
necessary part of any effective leadership.
James: Thank you
Austin,
you did most of my assignment! Thank you, sir. I can honestly
say, “All I saw so far in you were a few trees, but now I can
see the forest in you.” Thanks again.
I am James
Fernandes from Barkur, born much before
India got
its independence. This article helped me obtain my long awaited
B.A. degree finally, last year. Thanks to Austin’s help in this
regard. I also want to thank Austin publicly for finding time
in buying and installing a garage door opener for me on a cold
winter day! Thank you for your generosity, talent, and specially
time!
Since,
Austin
has shared his rarely spoken personal reflections, I thought I
could share them with Mangalorean.com and Barkur.com visitors,
upon his reluctant permission of course!
References:
1. Andrew
J. Dubrin, 2001, “LEADERSHIP, research Findings, Practice, and
Skills”, Houghton Mifflin Company,
Boston,
New York.
2. Stephen
R. Covey, 1989, “The 7 Habits of Highly effective People”,
Published by Simon and
Schuster,
New York, London,
3. Paul
Hersey, Kenneth Blanchard, and Dewey Johnson, 2001, “Management
of Organizational Behavior”, Prentice Hall, NJ, page 9
4.
http://www.nwlink.com/~donclark/hrd/history/xy.html,
page 1, 1-14-2003
5. Price
Pritchett, (1999), “New Work Habits For A Radically Changing
World”, Prichett Rummer-Brache, USA.
6.
http://www.teal.org.uk/Leadership/quotes.htm
(6-2-2003) |
